Thanks for proving my point. 
You guys brought up politics and used it as a club against those that disagree with you politically. Bravo. I suggest you reflect upon this exchange. Have a good night.
Except I never mentioned a side or viewpoint. The genre of political discourse itself is way too polarized, and to hooked into feels, not reason.
No party, no viewpoint, no dog in the fight.
You did where you told the gatekeepers that they should stick their tongues to a cold metal pole. You wish them harm. As you said, āReason is seldom, if ever, welcome in political discourse.ā If you canāt see your political viewpoint in your post then I donāt know what to tell ya.
I could care less what you believe politically. I donāt care what you like sexually. It doesnāt matter to me. How you present yourself speaks volumes on how you view yourself.
The only thing I care about is having fun with a good group of people in a shared activity.
Sorry about that. I had my fingers crossed it wouldnāt start a thing and I should have known better.
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So much this. Adding a bunch of modern design stuff is the opposite of OSR to me. Especially when they insist itās āthings weāve learned about designā rather than preferred flavor (hint: itās all preferred flavor). Now Iām missing AD&D 2nd edition lolā¦ I guess I should find/start a game.
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Guys, this thread has had a lot of back-and-forth with a strong undertone of hostility. It sounded like things were starting to cool down, but it seems like the embers continue to burn. Letās keep things civil, okay? Please review our FAQ for expectations.
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Oh, wow! Into the Unknown. I actually picked up the rules for the game because I received Book 2 of it instead of a book I had ordered for The Heroās Journey 2nd Ed. (which is a pretty epic game; I have all the books for it, and initially backed the Kickstarter). I figured if I got a free book for the game, I should pick up the others. Still working on my first read-through of Into the Unknown, but I am liking what I am reading so far.
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I played this with my adult kids before I actually tried 5e. It really is a lighter version. My kids arenāt into optimization but they want all the races that 5e has ( Tabaxis, tortles, etc.) so we just incorporate that. Theyāve taken the characters to 5e games with close friends without issue. It feels a little OSR but not as true as some of the other systems. Iāve learned a ton since starting this thread.
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In my limited experience with Into the Unknown (Iāve mostly been a DM), which the author asserts is OSR, the feature (or lack of feature) which I appreciate most is āvery little optimization.ā I play in a Pathfinder game and a 5e game. The Pathfinder game is with a couple of old friends who make the characters and I just play them. In the 5e game I have to make my own (poor me, right?). Anyway, it seems that in both those systems I have to have optimized characters to, not only enjoy the game, but to meaningfully contribute to the party. Thatās a little exhausting. When i run Into the Unknown, it seems easy to give every character equal time since none of them really outshine the others by their abilities. Any thoughts on that?
That assertion is about as clear as mud. Itās a matter of perspective as in OSR you still had methods of optimizing your character.
I guess Iām looking at it from the perspective of when I first played back in the 70ās. It took me minutes to make a character. The optimization we could do was limited and even characters who were special, like fighters with 18+ STR or paladins, didnāt outshine other characters because because the players of more mundane characters could accept more risk. If the died, you took a few minutes to make another and jumped back into the game.
If I could get someone to cast a Wish spell go me Iād love to back to the 70ās and play D&D with my current mindset.
Thatās what Iām looking for in OSR. I know from this thread alone, that people play that way. I just have to get a local group to play with or make the effort to play online.
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All depends on what local is. I agree that in 3xE and later it is all about what abilities fests and items you have. Character in the Character is optional.
However you can build an organically played character that is capable. Iāve done it, and yes play style matters. The old Dog owned the game. I did not have a finely tuned character. I knew how to use him.
I stiull prefer a game where how you play trumps what you play.
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Iām going to guess that you didnāt play with hirelings at first level. Hirelings were meant to be cannon fodder that you equipped with 10 foot poles then sent them ahead of the party. You had other hirelings that would travel with the party to help provide security etcā¦
I watched an interview with Tim Kask where he explained how they, TSR and Gary, played D&D and AD&D. They used hirelings. Many groups, including the ones I played in, didnāt use hirelings. If we did it would have made for a better game.
Youāre looking at this from a If You Donāt Have X You Canāt Do Y perspective that is modern when OSR is all about You Can Try. Optimization is more than numbers and what is written on the character sheet. It is what YOU as a player brings to the table. Since D&D/AD&D is an offshoot of a miniature wargame it is expected for you as a player to think intelligently. (Note this isnāt meant to imply you arenāt intelligent.) You have to decide how to overcome obstacles and the like. Nothing on the character sheet will tell you how to do that.
OSR at its core is a You Can Try system. You have to think about how to use the rules as is to overcome what is in front of you. The optimization part of OSR is you the player being able to outwit the DM and your fellow players to ensure that your character and party survives. That is something that you canāt put down on any character sheet.
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I think I saw that episode too. Tim said āwe paid them, and paid them well.ā Like he wanted us to know he did right by his fantasy hirelings.
Youāre totally right thatād Iād probably enjoy the game better with the hirelings. I have to start thinking out of the 5e norm.
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Theyāre great to have the player with less combat-oriented characters roll dice for. Whenever Iād play a thief or mage, Iād have hirelings and dogs to participate more in combat.
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Currently the Saturday groups has a lot of hirelings. A whole shipās crew for a massive vessel of 32 guns.
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Using hirelings definitely wouldāve helped me enjoy my early days of gaming a little more.
Well, you really need a fair referee who uses the reaction and loyalty tables. Sometimes youāll get DMs who micromanage and run-by-fiat hireling and henchmen; and make them not fun or worth the investment. Theyāre intended as a resource backed up by the rules, but some guys canāt resist using them as plot seeds.
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Iāve seen players burned by this to the point they create nowhen, nowhere characters without connection or background to avoid getting plot hooked.
Me? I have the DM a big juicy bag of plot hooks with my background and three sessions later the other players were wondering why it was about my character, I told them. Engage and you get the center stage too.
We still talking about henchmen? They shouldnāt have detailed backgrounds. They wouldnāt still be 0-level if they had a lot going on.
As far as PCs, Iād rather have no or minimal background from players in an OSR game. 1st-level PCs arenāt much more experienced than henchmen and can die in an instant. And Iād rather the in-game story grow from what the players do together in the present than what someone wrote in their fanfic. Nothing wrong if your group has a different approach though.
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